ADVERTISEMENT

Football Summit

BoilerStutz

Junior
Jul 14, 2006
2,092
1,739
113
Indianapolis
I see in the JConline that there is a Purdue football summit (see http://www.jconline.com/story/mike-carmin/2015/06/12/purdue-holding-football-summit/71107668/) taking place in San Diego. Hopefully Brees and the other former players will talk straight with Daniels and the Board of Trustees Chairman. Burke's unwillingness to invest in the football program at the level required to keep it competitive is the issue. He has been more interested in providing the minority sports with leading edge facilities, which do not seem to be helping soccer, softball, baseball or men's tennis much.

If Burke needs this much help figuring out what is required for a competitive football program, it is time to find an AD that knows college football and recognizes how important it is for the financial health of the entire athletic department. Football has gotten so low it is going to be tough to bring it back.
 
'How much more do you expect him to invest and where is the money coming from?
I think they're discussing the possibility of auctioning a complete set of the offensive mad genius' plays to pay for the entire renovation. Coaching staffs everywhere are salivating at the chance to be the owners of such a technical advantage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnHoosierr
'How much more do you expect him to invest and where is the money coming from?

Well, it's obviously a complex issue, but let's put it this way. Our revenues have sagged significantly - while BTN money has skyrocketed. Football ticket sales is the primary reason. The problem is that he hired 2 coaches that neither ignited interest in Purdue Football, either by the hiring and their "roll-out" as coach, the coaching staff they brought, the systems they put in place and the recruiting they achieved. That's a lot of missed check boxes.

Our facilities aren't the reason why Purdue's fallen off - there's schools with worse that do better. And it's not all money related stuff.

But I will say - when the Mizzou/Painter situation happened, somehow we coughed up the money literally overnight. When Hope was fired, Hazell hired - we managed to come up with the money.

Purdue's not poor. It's a school that has similar revenue to Maryland, Arizona State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, UCONN, NC State, etc.
 
Well, it's obviously a complex issue, but let's put it this way. Our revenues have sagged significantly - while BTN money has skyrocketed. Football ticket sales is the primary reason. The problem is that he hired 2 coaches that neither ignited interest in Purdue Football, either by the hiring and their "roll-out" as coach, the coaching staff they brought, the systems they put in place and the recruiting they achieved. That's a lot of missed check boxes.

Our facilities aren't the reason why Purdue's fallen off - there's schools with worse that do better. And it's not all money related stuff.

But I will say - when the Mizzou/Painter situation happened, somehow we coughed up the money literally overnight. When Hope was fired, Hazell hired - we managed to come up with the money.

Purdue's not poor. It's a school that has similar revenue to Maryland, Arizona State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, UCONN, NC State, etc.

Maryland has under armour funding its ad
 
'How much more do you expect him to invest and where is the money coming from?

I would have invested in my major source of revenue (football) where my dollars would have achieved the greatest return on investment. Burke's lack of investment in football has resulted in the largest drop in attendance last year amongst Div 1 schools. Clearly this huge loss in ticket revenue has everyone frightened, include the president of the university and the chairman of the board of the trustees.

Extravagant natatoriums, softball fields, baseball fields, and tennis facilities are nice, but they do not bring in meaningful revenue. Those investments must come once it is clear that the revenue generating sports are in robust shape.

Capital allocation is a key responsibility for managers on up to CEOs. I believe Burke has been called the CEO of Purdue athletics. That his superiors are being called in to fix a negative situation he has created is a bad sign for Purdue athletics.
 
This is FAR AND AWAY the most encouraging news I have heard about Purdue football in years. Step one in fixing a problem is admitting you've got a problem. The fact that former players including DB, the BOT Chair and Vice Chair, My Man Mitch, MB and Hazell will all commit an entire weekend to focus on this problem - is unbelievably encouraging to me. The level of knowledge, talent and resources that those folks have, coupled with their individual and collective desire to get the Purdue football program back to relevance, gives me A LOT of hope for the future of the program.
 
Maryland has under armour funding its ad

This is what bothers me about people on this board. I just listed several schools that are on a very similar financial situation that Purdue is in. You choose to pick ONE out and give an excuse why they aren't similar.

What about all the others??

Secondly, as someone in the DC area, I can tell you that Under Armour's relationship with Maryland has absolutely NOT been what Oregon's is with Nike. Maryland pays for their extra uniforms, helmets, etc. that they do - they aren't getting them for free. UA has basically taken a slow, but steady approach with Maryland. They've been hesitant to invest too much because it obviously was not a program that was well respected and one they wanted to be their "flagship" program. UA/Kevin Plank is getting more comfortable with it and has recently pledged its first really large donation.

But the larger point remains - there's plenty of other schools that invest "normal" amounts for sport programs like football and basketball. This notion that Purdue doesn't have the money to is bogus.
 
This is what bothers me about people on this board. I just listed several schools that are on a very similar financial situation that Purdue is in. You choose to pick ONE out and give an excuse why they aren't similar.

What about all the others??

Secondly, as someone in the DC area, I can tell you that Under Armour's relationship with Maryland has absolutely NOT been what Oregon's is with Nike. Maryland pays for their extra uniforms, helmets, etc. that they do - they aren't getting them for free. UA has basically taken a slow, but steady approach with Maryland. They've been hesitant to invest too much because it obviously was not a program that was well respected and one they wanted to be their "flagship" program. UA/Kevin Plank is getting more comfortable with it and has recently pledged its first really large donation.

But the larger point remains - there's plenty of other schools that invest "normal" amounts for sport programs like football and basketball. This notion that Purdue doesn't have the money to is bogus.

Also, Purdue has the fewest number of sports of any school in the Big Ten. Fewer non-revenue sports = less costs.
 
Purdue just acknowledged player amenities renovation is sorely needed. Its beyond me how someone could look at Purdue's football facility, at least the portion open to the public, and not feel like its a small JC school. What they are working out in right now is pretty similar to what IPFW has. Go stand in any big ten work out facility and tell me who we are better than? IU maybe? I haven't seen theirs.

Purdue's going to have to get over the idea they can balance their checkbook every year, and give back to the university. Times are a changin
 
Purdue just acknowledged player amenities renovation is sorely needed. Its beyond me how someone could look at Purdue's football facility, at least the portion open to the public, and not feel like its a small JC school. What they are working out in right now is pretty similar to what IPFW has. Go stand in any big ten work out facility and tell me who we are better than? IU maybe? I haven't seen theirs.

Purdue's going to have to get over the idea they can balance their checkbook every year, and give back to the university. Times are a changin
I've been in IU's - theirs is better. Weight room has floor to ceiling windows that overlook the field.
 
I hope they do not tell everyone they are holding this summit and then not share any results. I realize there are things they cannot talk about, but it would be terrible public relations to get folks excited about this gathering and then let folks know a bit about what happened.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLAG HUNTER
Why do they have to go to San Diego to do this?
They heard the NFL is looking to relocate teams to LA and got a little ahead of themselves since they believe "If you put it on the field they will come." It's worked well so far.
 
Why do they have to go to San Diego to do this?
My guess is that Brees and the other former players are driving the bus on this. I can't believe Daniels really wants to spend an entire weekend discussing football. He's just not that big of a sports guy. He said before that he is fine with Purdue athletics as long at players graduate and the budget is balanced. So his involvement represents a change in view point. And I think this is a reaction to plummeting ticket sales and discontent amongst former players, particularly Brees, who has given and who can give Purdue a lot of money
 
In my line of work, if you want people to come to a conference, you put it somewhere like San Diego. Maybe that is Brees driven though, because there are lots of awesome cities you could go to that are far less expensive.

Flag I play that game with myself all the time. Look at an encouraging result, feel optimistic, and then feel slightly more pessimistic it took them that long to get to the encouraging result in the first place.

In the end, I love that so much of the non athletic Purdue employees will be there. Matt Light once very eloquently described his frustration with the lack of initiative the university has put into the program. I hope hes there and says it to them. Their presence indicates a willingness to change, and this is where the real impact needs to happen.

I think Burke is a pretty bad AD. However, I do think he would have written several large checks by now if he were allowed to.
 
Purdue just acknowledged player amenities renovation is sorely needed. Its beyond me how someone could look at Purdue's football facility, at least the portion open to the public, and not feel like its a small JC school. What they are working out in right now is pretty similar to what IPFW has. Go stand in any big ten work out facility and tell me who we are better than? IU maybe? I haven't seen theirs.

Purdue's going to have to get over the idea they can balance their checkbook every year, and give back to the university. Times are a changin

I think you'd be surprised. Specifically, the indoor facility is quite nice. Nearly every school has pros and cons to their facilities.

Let's keep in mind we're competing against 2 Big Ten teams (Northwestern & Maryland) who do not even have indoor practice facilities.

Also, Purdue just renovated their men's basketball and olympic sport facilities - to include an underground weight room. If floor to ceiling windows cover up the issues, someone should be fired for this! Purdue's weight room is nothing bad.

To give you an idea:

Purdue's Weight Room
53c94b53629ff.image.jpg


Michigan:
ncf_schembechler_600.jpg


Florida:
original.jpg


Michigan State:
3331008.jpeg


Texas A&M:
sam_0304.jpg


Again, is Purdue's better than these looks wise? No (although maybe Michigan). Are these far and away better "looking" than Purdue's? No.

Equipment available and such is obviously another thing and I think Purdue can definitely use some aesthetic upgrades in their weight room. But people saying Purdue needs a facility with floor to ceiling windows to compete are a bit off.

I think the biggest need is space in terms of football offices/meetings rooms/etc. Like I said, the actual indoor facility is very solid and am not sure how it could be really significantly better.
 
perhaps.

I know to stand in Purdues weight room felt awful dingy and dirty to me. Im hesitant to judge based off of pictures too.

And if we were on par with Michigan, Florida, etc., schools with gigantic backers, I doubt the university would be saying player facilities renovations are 'sorely needed'. Doesn't that seem off to you?
 
perhaps.

I know to stand in Purdues weight room felt awful dingy and dirty to me. Im hesitant to judge based off of pictures too.

And if we were on par with Michigan, Florida, etc., schools with gigantic backers, I doubt the university would be saying player facilities renovations are 'sorely needed'. Doesn't that seem off to you?

Well there's more to facilities than weight rooms. And again, I don't know the quality of the equipment. I'm responding in a thread where someone automatically said IU's weight room "nicer" because it had floor to ceiling windows.

I still think the "Mackey" Renovation was poorly done and was essentially a band-aid to an overall future planning.
 
While my confidence in this coaching staff is not high, I don't get the need to make a weight room pretty. I don't go to a gym because of the way it looks, but what it has to offer.

But, that is just me.
 
I don't go to a gym because of the way it looks, but what it has to offer.

Thats what surprises me the most about this thread. I pick gyms largely based on what they look/feel like. All of them have the equipment you need to succeed, but I know how good I feel walking around there is going to play a large role in how hard I push myself, how likely I am to stay on my schedule, how pleasant other people are, etc.

Ive been in nice gyms and not nice gyms for large periods of time due to price, location, hours, etc. Its beyond me how people think a football gym is good enough cause it has everything one needs but no asthetics. Especially when every other school is gunning for kids too.

I mean if youre one of these kids, and youre signing up to spend 4+ years of your life at a school, how could it not be a big deal?
 
Well there's more to facilities than weight rooms.

Certainly. Im just going by whats publicly avaliable. Plus when I go to other universities Im unfamiliar with my surroundings and on a tighter schedule than I am at Purdue, so Im not an expert or anything.
 
Thats what surprises me the most about this thread. I pick gyms largely based on what they look/feel like. All of them have the equipment you need to succeed, but I know how good I feel walking around there is going to play a large role in how hard I push myself, how likely I am to stay on my schedule, how pleasant other people are, etc.

Ive been in nice gyms and not nice gyms for large periods of time due to price, location, hours, etc. Its beyond me how people think a football gym is good enough cause it has everything one needs but no asthetics. Especially when every other school is gunning for kids too.

I mean if youre one of these kids, and youre signing up to spend 4+ years of your life at a school, how could it not be a big deal?


Well, again, you point out stuff that's not necessarily straight up facility related.

First off, I don't think Purdue's weight room is anything offensive. It's not dark, it has high ceilings, it has natural light, etc.

Secondly, you mention hours and staff. I don't know what that situation is like. I don't know how good the staff are, if there are enough staff, how accessible they are, etc.

Remember - a lot of the Matt Painter/Mizzou situation revolved around "human" resources. I believe one of the additional staff positions created was a sports performance coach for the men's basketball team. That kind of stuff probably means more when selling a recruit and their parents.
 
Let's see................... We need a flashier weight room, lights in the stadium, wifi, beer on tap, neon gray unis w/sequined gold and black numerals, big screen scoreboards on all sides of the stadium, an upper deck, more luxury boxes, a playpen for season ticket holders in the south end zone. Yep, I can see these will all lead to something other than a 1 to 3 win season as we go forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBG
My guess is that Brees and the other former players are driving the bus on this. I can't believe Daniels really wants to spend an entire weekend discussing football. He's just not that big of a sports guy. He said before that he is fine with Purdue athletics as long at players graduate and the budget is balanced. So his involvement represents a change in view point. And I think this is a reaction to plummeting ticket sales and discontent amongst former players, particularly Brees, who has given and who can give Purdue a lot of money
I am not sure your view of Mitch regarding his lack of interest in sports is valid. I know for certain that he has attended several wrestling meets last year and has been the only Purdue President to do so. Yes, he wrestled in high school and thus the interest, but I have had the benefit of playing a round of golf with Mitch and he is a very, very competitive guy who loves to compete and thoroughly enjoys sports. He is a winner and as long as he is President he will not tolerate being a perpetual cellar dweller. Norm
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLAG HUNTER
Secondly, you mention hours and staff. I don't know what that situation is like. I don't know how good the staff are, if there are enough staff, how accessible they are, etc.

I was bringing up the staff as more of an analogy of what was important to me when selecting a gym, and not that a recruit would think about that sort of thing.

Anyone thats ever tried sales knows its easier to sell stuff that looks cool than stuff that doesnt.
 
I was bringing up the staff as more of an analogy of what was important to me when selecting a gym, and not that a recruit would think about that sort of thing.

Anyone thats ever tried sales knows its easier to sell stuff that looks cool than stuff that doesnt.
Today's kids aren't stupid enough to buy the pig that is currently Boiler FB just because you've got cool stuff. They want to play for a winner. If you're selling them on being part of turning a program around you have to have a program that looks like it can be turned around to sell not just cool stuff. If you think you can get fans back in RA by using cool stuff and not putting a winning team on the field you might as well lock the gates now.
 
no one is talking about just selling cool stuff.

I am saying it would be easier with cool stuff. Kids bring up good and bad reasons they pick certain schools all the time. I dont even follow that closely and Ive read more than a few articles where some kid wants to play for a Nike/UA school, etc. Howard talked about playing for a Nike school as significant to coming here.

And yes, adding cool stuff to RA will help with attendance too. People whine about noon games all the time here which is tied to having no lights. Young people dont go to games because of things like WIFI and lack of access to other games from the stands.

Yes, winning is far and away the best way to go about filling your roster and stadium. That doesnt mean the other stuff doesnt matter. So you can either neglect everything but winning, which makes winning harder btw, or you can embrace it all.
 
no one is talking about just selling cool stuff.

I am saying it would be easier with cool stuff. Kids bring up good and bad reasons they pick certain schools all the time. I dont even follow that closely and Ive read more than a few articles where some kid wants to play for a Nike/UA school, etc. Howard talked about playing for a Nike school as significant to coming here.

And yes, adding cool stuff to RA will help with attendance too. People whine about noon games all the time here which is tied to having no lights. Young people dont go to games because of things like WIFI and lack of access to other games from the stands.

Yes, winning is far and away the best way to go about filling your roster and stadium. That doesnt mean the other stuff doesnt matter. So you can either neglect everything but winning, which makes winning harder btw, or you can embrace it all.

But again, are those the kids you want? Like someone wants to come here cause its a Nike school? Uh, cool? What the hell does that mean?

Look at the basketball program - every kid will tell you its about working and playing hard. What do kids say about Purdue Football?
 
But again, are those the kids you want?

Theres plenty of kids that want to look good and work hard. Nor does the inclusion/valuing of something you dont value like 'looking good' mean they dont want to work hard.

You cant zero in on something like 'working hard' or 'winning' and pretend like everything else doesnt exist. It all matters.
 
Talent means a lot, but a player has to have a lot of heart, to me that means so much when recruiting
 
Theres plenty of kids that want to look good and work hard. Nor does the inclusion/valuing of something you dont value like 'looking good' mean they dont want to work hard.

You cant zero in on something like 'working hard' or 'winning' and pretend like everything else doesnt exist. It all matters.

Quite frankly, part of the problem over the last few years was that we had guys who were just happy "being on the Purdue Football team". That to them was fine - they were big shots on campus and got to play at a bigger school probably than they should be at. They didn't have the desire, intensity, drive, etc.

Nobody's discounting anything - but we've had a problem of work ethic and we certainly have a problem of talent level. One of those can be controlled and hopefully Hazell is recruiting kids who have the work ethic needed.

Purdue doesn't have the money of Ohio State - it needs to work harder, think smarter, be more creative, etc. I haven't seen that from Purdue and it's no wonder we can't remotely compete with good programs.
 
Purdue doesn't have the money of Ohio State - it needs to work harder, think smarter, be more creative, etc. I haven't seen that from Purdue and it's no wonder we can't remotely compete with good programs.

Not trying to be contrary cause I largely agree. The motor of the team has been a huge issue for a long time.

But as Purdue fans we can stop comparing oursleves to Ohio State. We do have the resources to compete with p5 school thats in the 40th through 70th percentile. That should be the focus of these threads.
 
Not trying to be contrary cause I largely agree. The motor of the team has been a huge issue for a long time.

But as Purdue fans we can stop comparing oursleves to Ohio State. We do have the resources to compete with p5 school thats in the 40th through 70th percentile. That should be the focus of these threads.

Quite frankly, I never discuss or compare us to Ohio State. We're not gonna ever be apples to apples with programs like that in terms of attendance, recruiting, facilities, etc. It doesn't mean we can't produce at a high rate of success. Michigan State's revenue used to be significantly below the top tier in the Big Ten, but they've sustained success in football and basketball and have grown their revenue (increasing ticket sales by over $10 million compared to Purdue's increase of nothing).

But again, it goes down to the things you can control. Working harder, smarter, faster, etc. It's not that much different than Purdue Basketball. Purdue Basketball over decades hasn't had the glitz, glamour, etc. that other programs had - but they competed with them. We don't have the recruits that some of these schools have, but we beat them.

Right now, I just don't think if we do all the stuff we can control - that we have enough talent to succeed. And that's saying a lot. It's an absolute joke that our athletic department has the same revenues of other major conference institutions, yet we continually make the same excuses that aren't backed up by anything than preconceived notions.
 
no one is talking about just selling cool stuff.

I am saying it would be easier with cool stuff. Kids bring up good and bad reasons they pick certain schools all the time. I dont even follow that closely and Ive read more than a few articles where some kid wants to play for a Nike/UA school, etc. Howard talked about playing for a Nike school as significant to coming here.

And yes, adding cool stuff to RA will help with attendance too. People whine about noon games all the time here which is tied to having no lights. Young people dont go to games because of things like WIFI and lack of access to other games from the stands.

Yes, winning is far and away the best way to go about filling your roster and stadium. That doesnt mean the other stuff doesnt matter. So you can either neglect everything but winning, which makes winning harder btw, or you can embrace it all.

Looking at this from a business standpoint, I absolutely get what 17 is saying. I would segment this conversation and little add that "diehard" fans buy tickets no matter what, so let's put that group on hold and concentrate on the not-so-diehard group of the casual fan. Families looking for something to do on a Saturday, youth groups, etc. like to attend events where they have a positive experience no matter the outcome of the teams playing. Certainly a winning product helps the overall experience. And Wifi, big screens, lights that offer an evening game once per year, whatever... that stuff isn't going to win any games on the field. But it does contribute to the user/fan experience. You want casual fans to talk to co-workers on a Monday and say "we lost, but we had a great time anyway". The positive guest experience adds value for the buyer and is what gets the casual fan types to come again. And ideally, over time some of these repeat casual fans convert to diehards.

Bottom line, you got to a) recruit new casual fans, and b) convert the current casual fans to diehards, at a combined rate that exceeds the combined rate c) the diehards you're losing to uncontrollable external factors (relocation, death, whatever), and d) the casual fans who are seeking alternative entertainment. If you're not doing that, your fanbase is diminishing while ticket sales slide. Easier said than done, I know, but I think boiler17 is on the money that guest experience matters.
 
and guest experience feeds recruiting and vice versa.

yet we continually make the same excuses that aren't backed up by anything than preconceived notions.

100% agree. Anytime they tell the public something that cant happen, like train tunnels, it just sounds like they dont feel like it.

Plus when they do make improvements they are very poorly planned out. The best face of Ross Aide faces apartments/no one can see it. I personally dont think Mackey even looks good. The most serene entrance to the stadium, imo anyway, is up the stairs between the locker room and indoor facility and that area cant accomate many people/stairs are prohibitive to handicapped/old people. The coolest entrance to Mackey isnt front and center/also cant accomodate a ton of people. Short-sighted losers with no vision
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Courthouse Carp
and guest experience feeds recruiting and vice versa.


100% agree. Anytime they tell the public something that cant happen, like train tunnels, it just sounds like they dont feel like it.

Plus when they do make improvements they are very poorly planned out. The best face of Ross Aide faces apartments/no one can see it. I personally dont think Mackey even looks good. The most serene entrance to the stadium, imo anyway, is up the stairs between the locker room and indoor facility and that area cant accomate many people/stairs are prohibitive to handicapped/old people. The coolest entrance to Mackey isnt front and center/also cant accomodate a ton of people. Short-sighted losers with no vision

I agree - there is just not a lot of creativity. Granted, that part of campus doesn't have a lot of space to work with, but it doesn't always seem very well thought out. It goes across several projects…

1. Ross-Ade renovation. Didn't touch the south end zone - it was a dump then, it's a dump now. Why they put together that project and didn't do anything to the south end zone (or really with any plans to do anything) is beyond me. Meanwhile, they have these grand plans to add upper decks to bring capacity to 80,000 (which any sane person could tell you was not logical or realistic to ever fill on an even semi-regular basis).

2. Baseball Stadium - I still think they put way too much into this. If anything, do it in phases. And the fundraising done for this was minimal.

3. Mackey Project. This was mind-boggling. First off, a significant amount of the project had nothing to do with Mackey or Purdue Basketball. It was moving the grand prix track, building new practice football fields, new locker rooms for many sports, the baseball stadium, etc. all lumped into one project called "The Mackey Renovation". Not to mention they did a poor job of marketing it and explaining to people what was done (the page they used on Purdue's website was…lacking).

On top of this, it was more of a band-aid fix in terms of facilities. The sports performance is underground and doesn't look that big for all the sports (minus football) to use whenever they want. It's better than what it was, but if you're going to build something new, build it right. The IAF looks horrible and has like zero windows - home to our academic center?

Obviously all of this requires money. The Mackey Renovation was planned before the financial collapse, but the fundraising portion heavily came after which was not good and not really Purdue's fault. The downfall of the football program has had a huge negative impact on the athletic department's financials - even while the BTN money is exceeding what was expected. And it shows no signs of improving.

This is why recruiting is important. Even if we weren't kicking butt on the field, excitement about a program sells tickets. If we saw exciting improvements in recruiting, in an exciting and/or well run system, etc. - this leads to more interest. For example, attendance in Matt Painter's first season actually increased - even though it was a horrible season. But they busted their butts and played hard - and won some games they shouldn't have. Meanwhile, there was also some exciting stuff happening with the program with recruiting.
 
ADVERTISEMENT