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Could our bench be our strength?

proudopete

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Jan 26, 2010
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Knowing other teams will have to sub and hopefully more often against us if the starting five pans out. Do you think the strength of our bench players is going to give us a major advantage in most games?

I can see a few of the bench players having huge games regularly as they feed on the weaker competition. Who has a back up center that will want to play against Haas? How about the backup two that has to go against Mathias or Stevens? The poor guy who has to matchup to Basil?

Even without adding in our new frosh or a sophomore with a heart like PJ, we still look to have three bench players who likely could start elsewhere.

I can see a lead magnifying during many games when the bench comes in to give the starters a rest. Does anyone else see this?
 
Knowing other teams will have to sub and hopefully more often against us if the starting five pans out. Do you think the strength of our bench players is going to give us a major advantage in most games?

I can see a few of the bench players having huge games regularly as they feed on the weaker competition. Who has a back up center that will want to play against Haas? How about the backup two that has to go against Mathias or Stevens? The poor guy who has to matchup to Basil?

Even without adding in our new frosh or a sophomore with a heart like PJ, we still look to have three bench players who likely could start elsewhere.

I can see a lead magnifying during many games when the bench comes in to give the starters a rest. Does anyone else see this?
You make some great points.I think this will be the best bench Purdue has ever had.
 
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Knowing other teams will have to sub and hopefully more often against us if the starting five pans out. Do you think the strength of our bench players is going to give us a major advantage in most games?

I can see a few of the bench players having huge games regularly as they feed on the weaker competition. Who has a back up center that will want to play against Haas? How about the backup two that has to go against Mathias or Stevens? The poor guy who has to matchup to Basil?

Even without adding in our new frosh or a sophomore with a heart like PJ, we still look to have three bench players who likely could start elsewhere.

I can see a lead magnifying during many games when the bench comes in to give the starters a rest. Does anyone else see this?

No. Help a little, yes.....but with the best front line arguably in the nation I would say that is the ticket to ride. We had a short reliable few last year....we will find that rotation longer this year, but difference makers play the minutes and will be our strength.
 
Purdue should have a very good, deep team this season......so it goes without saying that the bench will be a strength IMO. I think there will plenty of opportunities for the bench to flex it's muscle. The old one two punch.
 
I honestly think the Calipari platoon swaps could work for Purdue next season.

When asked about that platoon system, Calimari said he would never do it again. He did it to appease the monster egos he had on his roster and the consequence was his best players didn't get to play the minutes they deserved. It also really hurt him in recruiting this year (that's a relative term) because other coaches were using that against him. They would say "do you really want to go to Kentucky where you will average 18-20 min a game because the coach has to many ego's to play to?"

I think that mentality contributed to so many guys leaving for the NBA and them missing on so many high profile recruits. Now, I'm not sad about that one bit because I think programs like Kentucky are destroying the college game.
 
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Lets assume the starting lineup is Hill, Mathias, Davis, Swanigan, Hammons..Bringing Stephens, Edwards, and Haas off the bench is insane. Besides Biggie, those are our 3 highest rated recruits on the entire roster, and they'd be coming off the bench.
 
We will have several strengths this year, more strengths than weaknesses. Our biggest strength will be our size, aren't many teams in the country that simply won't have the horses to keep up for 40 minutes.
Size
Bench
Game Experience
Mackey Arena...
Rebounding
Defense
Outside Shooting
 
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The injury bug bites every team, but the boilers will be almost impervious . they could lose 2 bigs and be taller than most. I know that Painter thought he shortened the rotation too late last year, but I think it helped with the Feb grind. It is a luxury that AJ, Biggie,Haas, and Taylor could average 20 min/game prebig
 
Knowing other teams will have to sub and hopefully more often against us if the starting five pans out. Do you think the strength of our bench players is going to give us a major advantage in most games?

I can see a few of the bench players having huge games regularly as they feed on the weaker competition. Who has a back up center that will want to play against Haas? How about the backup two that has to go against Mathias or Stevens? The poor guy who has to matchup to Basil?

Even without adding in our new frosh or a sophomore with a heart like PJ, we still look to have three bench players who likely could start elsewhere.

I can see a lead magnifying during many games when the bench comes in to give the starters a rest. Does anyone else see this?



Even if D. Mathias doesn't start, him getting his deviated septum fixed is huge for him, our bench & team. I've had similar problems as D. Mathias, & when you can breath that much more easily, you can more easily regulate your body temp, thus keeping cooler, lowering your core body temp, playing longer, stronger & under a lot less stress. Above, someone mentioned bringing a new 5 players off the bench/subbing [all at once] to rest the starters. I think, at times, this could be a great idea [Iowa's Tom Davis did this years ago]. You bring in players in waves, your defense is stifiling, all over the opposition, all while a fresh new 5 group of players waits to do the same thing on your bench. It can [if manipulated correctly by the coach] devistate, confuse & bewilder many opposition teams & players/coaches. Your offense, defense & transition is so much fresher, energetic & up tempo, it can make things look awfully bleak, grim & hopeless for the opposition, their coach[es] included.

Starters?

1. Hill
2. Davis
3. Edwards
4. Swanigan
5. Hammons

Fresh new wave of players enter all at once to sub for starting 5?

1. Mathias
2. Stephens
3. Smotherman
4. Taylor
5. Haas

The preseason may be a good time to try somthing like this out. Anouther advantage to subbing this way, you get a chemistry/ bonding/working relationship with one anouther more easily. For instance, a Hass, Stephens, Mathias trio could/would most likely learn to play more easily/comfortably/better with one anouther, if they all came in at the same time, were grouped together & spent [more] common time together on the floor. The same could be true for Taylor & Smotherman. This could also help the starters to bond more easily, especially a newcommer like Swanigan or Hill. When a player knows [ahead of time/pre game] when they are going in the game, this can make things a lot more successfull/relaxing/positive for the player & the entire team. Less stress = more wins/greater comfort zone.

I'll stick with my previous prediction for this team. Purdue wins the B1G, Hammons is B1G MVP, & Painter may just get anouther B1G Coach of the Year, with considerations for National [college] Coach of the Year.
 
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I honestly think the Calipari platoon swaps could work for Purdue next season.


You are correct, but this platoon system works greatest when there is an excess of talent on a team. This Purdue team has that excess, probably more than they've had in many, many years. If any time was the time to try the platoon system, this season would be the season to try it. I think that sysyem can & will work positively for Purdue this season. Anouther great advantage to the platoon system, is foul trouble. You naturally get fewer fouls with the platoon system, less stress on the players, coaches, & more stress on opposition players & coaches. Painter would want to try this platoon system out a. s. a. p. Get it down pat, with comfort, chemistry & reduced stress for all, coaches included.

This look for a team, can be devistating on the opposition, coaches included. I think Coach Painter will try it, win with it, & if this much talent is on any future Purdue teams, Painter will use it to Purdue's full advantage then as well, as he should. If you've got this much talent on one team, you might as well use it/take full advantage of it. This could also help recruiting as well. When you know your role ahead of time, it's that much more easy/comfortable for you, as well as your teammates & coaches. More comfort/less stress = more wins/success.
 
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The deviated
Even if D. Mathias doesn't start, him getting his deviated septum fixed is huge for him, our bench & team. I've had similar problems as D. Mathias, & when you can breath that much more easily, you can more easily regulate your body temp, thus keeping cooler, lowering your core body temp, playing longer, stronger & under a lot less stress. Above, someone mentioned bringing a new 5 players off the bench/subbing [all at once] to rest the starters. I think, at times, this could be a great idea [Iowa's Tom Davis did this years ago]. You bring in players in waves, your defense is stifiling, all over the opposition, all while a fresh new 5 group of players waits to do the same thing on your bench. It can [if manipulated correctly by the coach] devistate, confuse & bewilder many opposition teams & players/coaches. Your offense, defense & transition is so much fresher, energetic & up tempo, it can make things look awfully bleak, grim & hopeless for the opposition, their coach[es] included.

Starters?

1. Hill
2. Davis
3. Edwards
4. Swanigan
5. Hammons

Fresh new wave of players enter all at once to sub for starting 5?

1. Mathias
2. Stephens
3. Smotherman
4. Taylor
5. Haas

The preseason may be a good time to try somthing like this out. Anouther advantage to subbing this way, you get a chemistry/ bonding/working relationship with one anouther more easily. For instance, a Hass, Stephens, Mathias trio could/would most likely learn to play more easily/comfortably/better with one anouther, if they all came in at the same time, were grouped together & spent [more] common time together on the floor. The same could be true for Taylor & Smotherman. This could also help the starters to bond more easily, especially a newcommer like Swanigan or Hill. When a player knows [ahead of time/pre game] when they are going in the game, this can make things a lot more successfull/relaxing/positive for the player & the entire team. Less stress = more wins/greater comfort zone.

I'll stick with my previous prediction for this team. Purdue wins the B1G, Hammons is B1G MVP, & Painter may just get anouther B1G Coach of the Year, with considerations for National [college] Coach of the Year.

The deviated septum issue (along with other health issues) is just one reason why I don't think that Mathias spending significant time at point guard is as far-fetched as some on here think. I really believe that we'll see a different player next season.
 
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The deviated


The deviated septum issue (along with other health issues) is just one reason why I don't think that Mathias spending significant time at point guard is as far-fetched as some on here think. I really believe that we'll see a different player next season.

I believe he can play PG. I've heard he thinks he can play PG. This season, he'll be stronger, quicker, faster, better ball handler, have more endurance & stamina [ "The Six Million Dollar Man"/"Super Sub"]. I believe Painter believes he can play PG. I think Coach Painter will give him an honest look at PG. Things/players/talent being [this season] what they are, I think you want your best players on the floor as much as possible. He's clearly one of our best players. I think Mathias gets more time/playing/floor time as the back up/sub PG, than any other senario imaginable this season. I think he deserves that chance. I think the difference we/Purdue sees in his fitness, strength, stamina/athletic prowess/conditioning will shock many people, & some coaches as well. When you can breath that much more easily, as a D1, B1G prime time basketball player, at this level, that is an eye opening difference we will see in him/his play this season. It's almost like he had a broken nose last season/from birth, [& previoiusly in his life] & now it's fixed, & he's rarin' to go. I've never seen any lack of effort on his part, since he came to Purdue. I can't wait for the first exibition/scrimmage game this season. I can see this season at Purdue really helping our recruiting, for years to come. I see great things for this team. This should/will be Coach Painter's best team!
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that our greatest strength this year will be the team. Not the starting lineup. Not the bench. The team is the strength. All of it can and will mesh the way we've hoped for for several years.
 
Knowing other teams will have to sub and hopefully more often against us if the starting five pans out. Do you think the strength of our bench players is going to give us a major advantage in most games?

I can see a few of the bench players having huge games regularly as they feed on the weaker competition. Who has a back up center that will want to play against Haas? How about the backup two that has to go against Mathias or Stevens? The poor guy who has to matchup to Basil?

Even without adding in our new frosh or a sophomore with a heart like PJ, we still look to have three bench players who likely could start elsewhere.

I can see a lead magnifying during many games when the bench comes in to give the starters a rest. Does anyone else see this?
I'm actually worried that like with Kentucky the strength of the bench could prove to be a detriment at times. We have the depth to go ridiculously deep, but history usually shows that you are better off going only 8-9 deep.

Our top players at this point (obviously open to debate):
1. Hammons
2. Davis
3. Edwards
4. Stephens
5. Matthias
6. Swanigan
7. Haas
8. Thompson
9. Hill
10. Smotherman
11. Cline
12. Weatherford
13. Taylor

Hard to know how the newcomers actually rank on the list, as Swanigan could be instantly one of our best players but then again Cline, Hill, or Weatherford might be a hell of a lot better than I'm giving them credit for as well. Likewise many of the returning guys have reportedly made offseason strides to change their physiques and supplement their game, so some of them might have earned increased minutes. Looking at that list though, does one of our best athletes (Smotherman) get locked out of the rotation? Does perhaps our best shooter (Cline) redshirt just because we have other shooters (Stephens and Matthias) with more experience? Will Weatherford challenge for minutes at the wide open PG spot or do we assume it will go to Hill or Thompson (to say nothing of Davis' statements of wanting to earn minutes there, or the potential we let Edwards or Matthias see time as the primary ballhandler)? The bench will no doubt be a strength, but we cannot let it take too many minutes from the team's best players and we can't take too long to figure out just what rotation best fits the squad.
 
Knowing other teams will have to sub and hopefully more often against us if the starting five pans out. Do you think the strength of our bench players is going to give us a major advantage in most games?

I can see a few of the bench players having huge games regularly as they feed on the weaker competition. Who has a back up center that will want to play against Haas? How about the backup two that has to go against Mathias or Stevens? The poor guy who has to matchup to Basil?

Even without adding in our new frosh or a sophomore with a heart like PJ, we still look to have three bench players who likely could start elsewhere.

I can see a lead magnifying during many games when the bench comes in to give the starters a rest. Does anyone else see this?

nuance I know, but I don't think the depth will be "our" strength, but will be "a" strength if egos don't get in the way...
 
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Fans will always have opinions here is mine. Purdue needs to replace Jon O. His contributions on defense play maker and game controller were extremely valuable. The addition of Swanigan adds depth to our inside game and rebounding. This is an improvement to an already dominant strategy. With practice he will add to our intermediate game and stretch the opponents defense and add another component to the Arsenal.
Purdues' strength is and will continue to be a robust smothering defense. Purdue fans saw first hand what the NBA style run and gun does to the game. A street ball game well it just hasn't worked in the past.
Haas has been an underrated addition to the squad. His size and relative agility is well ahead of schedule. Re-watching the IU / Purdue game at Assembly Hall, Haas played a very good game. There is No doubt he has challenged Hammons during practice who improved immensely last year. This year with Hammons, Haas and Swanigan - No one will be bigger. I would suspect many team will try to go small to counter the Purdue size.
The imperative need for replacement of Jon O can not be over stated. Smaller, quicker teams will exploit the larger (relatively slower) Purdue team unless Purdue can blunt and slow the quickness. Purdue had much better success when the game pace was slowed to a half court set and had much less success with Purdue could not get back in defense. Teams will exploit this when Hammons, Haas or Swanigan are not there to stop the high percentage shots inside.
Outside shooting / 3 point game… This is one of Purdues' biggest weaknesses. Last years shooting has to improve so the inside out can work…
Swanigan, Haas and Hammons will all benefit from better outside shooting when defenses can no longer sag on the Centers.
OK I'm done. If you don't agree. Move on and write your own opinion.
 
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I'm actually worried that like with Kentucky the strength of the bench could prove to be a detriment at times. We have the depth to go ridiculously deep, but history usually shows that you are better off going only 8-9 deep.

Our top players at this point (obviously open to debate):
1. Hammons
2. Davis
3. Edwards
4. Stephens
5. Matthias
6. Swanigan
7. Haas
8. Thompson
9. Hill
10. Smotherman
11. Cline
12. Weatherford
13. Taylor

Hard to know how the newcomers actually rank on the list, as Swanigan could be instantly one of our best players but then again Cline, Hill, or Weatherford might be a hell of a lot better than I'm giving them credit for as well. Likewise many of the returning guys have reportedly made offseason strides to change their physiques and supplement their game, so some of them might have earned increased minutes. Looking at that list though, does one of our best athletes (Smotherman) get locked out of the rotation? Does perhaps our best shooter (Cline) redshirt just because we have other shooters (Stephens and Matthias) with more experience? Will Weatherford challenge for minutes at the wide open PG spot or do we assume it will go to Hill or Thompson (to say nothing of Davis' statements of wanting to earn minutes there, or the potential we let Edwards or Matthias see time as the primary ballhandler)? The bench will no doubt be a strength, but we cannot let it take too many minutes from the team's best players and we can't take too long to figure out just what rotation best fits the squad.

Excellent points. This is exactly as I see it even Basil, guess we find out in 4+ months.
 
I'm actually worried that like with Kentucky the strength of the bench could prove to be a detriment at times. We have the depth to go ridiculously deep, but history usually shows that you are better off going only 8-9 deep.

Our top players at this point (obviously open to debate):
1. Hammons
2. Davis
3. Edwards
4. Stephens
5. Matthias
6. Swanigan
7. Haas
8. Thompson
9. Hill
10. Smotherman
11. Cline
12. Weatherford
13. Taylor

Hard to know how the newcomers actually rank on the list, as Swanigan could be instantly one of our best players but then again Cline, Hill, or Weatherford might be a hell of a lot better than I'm giving them credit for as well. Likewise many of the returning guys have reportedly made offseason strides to change their physiques and supplement their game, so some of them might have earned increased minutes. Looking at that list though, does one of our best athletes (Smotherman) get locked out of the rotation? Does perhaps our best shooter (Cline) redshirt just because we have other shooters (Stephens and Matthias) with more experience? Will Weatherford challenge for minutes at the wide open PG spot or do we assume it will go to Hill or Thompson (to say nothing of Davis' statements of wanting to earn minutes there, or the potential we let Edwards or Matthias see time as the primary ballhandler)? The bench will no doubt be a strength, but we cannot let it take too many minutes from the team's best players and we can't take too long to figure out just what rotation best fits the squad.

If you believe the reports, Swanigan is a sure starter. I'm optimistic that Taylor will be this year's surprise contributor. Purdue is due for a good surprise.
 
"Fans will always have opinions here is mine. Purdue needs to replace Jon O. His contributions on defense play maker and game controller were extremely valuable."

+1

I believe that this season's team is set up to likely be the best Purdue team over the next 2 or 3 years, so I was hoping that the coaching staff could get a PG with a more impressive resume (or in the case of college transfers, a more "proven" commodity) than what they've got right now. Obviously, it's not an easy thing to do, but I thought it could really help this team and help Rapheal Davis and A.J. Hammons' college careers end on a high-note.

To clarify, I think Johnny Hill will help but they might need someone that has proven they can produce at a higher-level more often than he has in his college career in order for Purdue to be really strong at the PG position. Technically, it is not too late to add this caliber of PG (remember Jon Octeus' transfer was made official only two weeks before the first exhibition game last year) but someone would either have to pay their own way for a season or someone like Grant Weatherford would have to go an alternate route (i.e. a prep school) for a season in order for the team to not go over the scholarship limit.
 
"Fans will always have opinions here is mine. Purdue needs to replace Jon O. His contributions on defense play maker and game controller were extremely valuable."

+1

I believe that this season's team is set up to likely be the best Purdue team over the next 2 or 3 years, so I was hoping that the coaching staff could get a PG with a more impressive resume (or in the case of college transfers, a more "proven" commodity) than what they've got right now. Obviously, it's not an easy thing to do, but I thought it could really help this team and help Rapheal Davis and A.J. Hammons' college careers end on a high-note.

To clarify, I think Johnny Hill will help but they might need someone that has proven they can produce at a higher-level more often than he has in his college career in order for Purdue to be really strong at the PG position. Technically, it is not too late to add this caliber of PG (remember Jon Octeus' transfer was made official only two weeks before the first exhibition game last year) but someone would either have to pay their own way for a season or someone like Grant Weatherford would have to go an alternate route (i.e. a prep school) for a season in order for the team to not go over the scholarship limit.

If ur wanting a player to transfer from a high major conference, he's usually doing it because he wants to be the focus of the team. We don't need that. We have our team in place. The only thing we needed was a pg that could hustle, distribute, play d, and handle the ball. We don't need a ball hog like yogi. That's why Octeus was so effective for us, he did all the little things. The jury is still out on hill, but he seems like a team player, someone that has played pg before and play hard. We know he's a fifth year guy so he has strength and experience. Under the circumstances of our current team situation, I think we were darn lucky to get hill.
 
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If ur wanting a player to transfer from a high major conference, he's usually doing it because he wants to be the focus of the team. We don't need that. We have our team in place. The only thing we needed was a pg that could hustle, distribute, play d, and handle the ball. We don't need a ball hog like yogi. That's why Octeus was so effective for us, he did all the little things. The jury is still out on hill, but he seems like a team player, someone that has played pg before and play hard. We know he's a fifth year guy so he has strength and experience. Under the circumstances of our current team situation, I think we were darn lucky to get hill.


Great teams have PG's that can do those things BUT those PG's can also consistently make jumpers and be a threat to score in double-figures every game. Octeus was pretty close to being that type of dual threat last season in all areas, except for being able to hit mid-range and perimeter jumpers consistently and at a high-rate, if needed.

I just know that whoever's in the game playing PG needs to be enough of a shooting and scoring threat that the Boilers aren't playing 4 on 5. Great teams are truly playing 5 on 5 when they have the ball.
 
True, but great teams have pg's that know when to pass vs shoot. I think Kentucky lost to Wisconsin because the Harrison twins didn't pass it into towns as much as they shouldve, they took ill-advised shots. I would rather our pg know that the first option is Hammons vs trying to score himself. I think his points will come because we have other players getting the defensive focus and that should let driving lanes open and uncontested shots.
 
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Great Point guards make Good decisions to control the game - shooting, distributing the ball and positioning the ball entrance to help team setup good looks as well as knowing when to use their own quickness to attack the opponent.
 
True, but great teams have pg's that know when to pass vs shoot. I think Kentucky lost to Wisconsin because the Harrison twins didn't pass it into towns as much as they shouldve, they took ill-advised shots. I would rather our pg know that the first option is Hammons vs trying to score himself. I think his points will come because we have other players getting the defensive focus and that should let driving lanes open and uncontested shots.

That's true. It's also possible to have a PG that understands and follows this principle BUT also happens to be a very good shooter and scorer.
 
I think a good PG doesnt need to be great at scoring he just needs to know how to take advantage of a mismatch and play solid defense(much like Octeus).
 
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