Bowe Bergdahl Charged

[SDBoiler1]

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) - "The Army sergeant who abandoned his post in Afghanistan and was held captive by the Taliban could face up to life in prison if convicted of both the charges he's facing, military officials said Wednesday

Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was charged with misbehavior before the enemy, which carries a maximum sentence of up to life in prison. He was also charged with desertion, which carries a maximum of five years."

Off to the brig?

 

[BoilerTom90]

but, but, but what did Susan Rice say about him?

Served his country with "honor and distinction."

He definitely distinguished himself. Just not all that honorable.

 

[Purdue97]

All we learned today is htat he will be charged

-Said several times on here that it was known that he sought out the enemy, looked for villagers/Taliban that could speak English so he could communicate with Taliban.

-It was also known he put his unit in peril due to the time/operations they spent looking for him.

He was charged. Right move. That said this is a long road ahead before he is actually found guilty. I found it surprising that with the charges so serious, and potential life in prison sentence, that he was released without confinement. Soldiers get confinement for a lot less than this.

I still think at the end of the day, he is found guilty and just discharged without honorable conditions.

In other news, 3 of the 5 Taliban 5, are already reaching out or connected with Taliban/Al Qaeda/insurgents etc.

 

[GMM]

Gosh, if only the Administration had known this about him

They wouldn't have made the deal, right?

 

[qazplm]

no they don't

Soldiers only get pretrial confinement if they are:

a flight risk
a threat to commit more, serious misconduct
a few lesser reasons (e.g. "quitters" i.e. folks that go around being a cancer to everyone can be put in pretrial confinement)

The military justice system doesn't have bail, thus pretrial confinement is much more scarcely used than in the civilian world.

And yes, charged doesn't mean guilty, and it doesn't even mean he will go to trial. There could be a deal for a discharge in lieu of court-martial, or some other administrative combo. That deal could either come from the defense or be offered by the government, depending on the situation with his mental health, the proof or lack thereof.

Or there could be a plea deal to a lesser included offense like say AWOL.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Re: no they don't

He said, "Soldiers get confinement for a lot less than this."

You said, "Soldiers only get pretrial confinement if they are: a flight risk, a threat to commit more, serious misconduct
a few lesser reasons (e.g. "quitters" i.e. folks that go around being a cancer to everyone can be put in pretrial confinement)."

Most of those I would consider less than deserting your post in a war zone...

 

[BoilerJS]

Mental illness is a sorry excuse. Most crimes are committed by someone that has a screw loose. Normal people don't commit crimes.

 

[qazplm]

I dont think you are understanding

it's not about the seriousness of the charged offense. That is not a consideration ordinarily. I've represented, and prosecuted rapists, murderers and the like who weren't in PTC. I've also represented low level repeat offenders who did go to PTC.

Rule for Court-Martial 305(h)(2)(B):

To order someone into confinement you need:

1. an offense triable by court-martial
2. the prisoner committed it
3. Confinement is necessary because the prisoner will not appear at trial (flight risk), or the prisoner will engage in serious criminal misconduct (this is ADDITIONAL to what they've already done) AND lesser forms of restraint are inadequate.

You have 1, you have 2, you don't remotely have 3. He's not a flight risk, and there is no indication that he will commit further, serious misconduct.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Re: I dont think you are understanding


I guess I don't understand how a deserter wouldn't be considered a flight risk.

 

[qazplm]

what?

1. no most crimes are not committed by someone that has a screw loose. Normal people commit crimes all of the time. I have over a decade of continuous experience trying and defending criminal cases. The VAST majority of my clients and those I prosecuted were quite normal, no mental health issues of any significance. Moral weakness, lack of intelligence, and immaturity were the largest issues by far.

2. mental illness is not a sorry excuse. It's also rarely a successful excuse because it's rarely proven/found. The burden is on the defense to some degree (although the government still has to prove intent (and mens rea) which carries with it an element of mental responsibility). So when it IS present, it's a very good excuse in fact either as a complete defense or on sentencing.

Society has had this debate. It did not come down on the mental illness is a sorry excuse side.

 

[qazplm]

Because he isn't likely charged

with THAT kind of desertion (intent to remain away permanently).

Instead, he is most likely charged with intent to avoid/shirk hazardous duty. It's easier to prove than intent to remain away permanently, particularly with his repeated history of leaving and then coming back in both Germany and Afghanistan.

That duty no longer exists, thus he no longer is a flight risk.
He's also extremely well known. He wouldn't get 50 feet without someone knowing where he was.

So for a variety of reasons he is not a flight risk.

 

[Purdue97]

Hmmmh, interesting

-I would say that someone who has left before, multiple times as you have mentioned, is a flight risk for the basic reason he has done it multiple times before.


-I can honestly say that anyone(especially US Soldier) in eastern Afghanistan/Western Pakistan, that goes out and seeks Taliban/Al Qaeda, has a pretty good idea that his absence from his unit will turn into something permanent

--Does the fact that someone is really well known come into play if they are a flight risk or not? Just because he can be identified does not have any bearing on one running or not. It definitely did not have an impact in him leaving his unit the first times.

On another note, shame on his chain of command. How someone like this was allowed to stay in the unit in the first place is a lack of leadership.

This post was edited on 3/26 4:44 PM by Purdue97

 

[qazplm]

Re: Hmmmh, interesting

1. No, it's not that simple. He isn't your garden variety deserter. He always came back every single other time he left, so that's literally exculpatory evidence that will be used by his defense attorney at trial, if there is one. So no, that's not a basis for PTC.

2. There is no evidence he went out and "sought" AQ that I am aware of. There is evidence that he left at least once in Afghanistan and then came back in short order. Regardless, he isn't in Afghanistan anymore, and he certainly isn't someone who is itching to get back there. So, again, not a flight risk.

3. Yes, the fact that someone is extremely well know is a factor that plays into whether they are a flight risk or not. He isn't rich. He likely does not have a valid passport. He isn't going to get very far if he did leave. The other times he left his unit he was not, in fact, famous. I'm not even sure he could get past a TSA checkpoint at this point.

4. He's been hanging around for quite awhile with talk about his possibly being court-martialed and hasn't gone anywhere. It's not like he just found out about the possibility yesterday, nor was anyone telling him, unless they are an idiot, that it couldn't possibly happen. He's known for awhile this was possibly coming, and he's, apparently, shown up where/when he is supposed to, because if he were five minutes late to one meeting or appointment, that would be a charge on the charge sheet for failure to repair.

That evidence alone is a strong indicator he isn't a flight risk.

These things were considered, and the general, with advice from a senior judge advocate, decided not to place him into PTC. This isn't liberal qazplm defense attorney coming up with hypos. This is basic stuff that is done every day, that I have 12 years of experience now in doing. I'm explaining why he didn't get PTC. These are the things that were considered in making that decision.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Re: Hmmmh, interesting

As for well-known, I absolutely think Bo Bergdahl could walk up in the street and punch 99% of Americans in the face and they'd have no clue who he was by facial recognition. If he first said, "I'm Bo Bergdahl", maybe 90% of them would still be clueless.

 

[Purdue97]

Re: Hmmmh, interesting

-I will say I am surprised by it, but my post was more of a question as to why, not so much a retort thinking you are liberal and clueless about it. Knew you were in JAG.

-As for him seeking out the Taliban/Al Qaeda, it is well known that he was asking Afghani villagers if they knew of anyone that spoke English well enough for him to communicate to the Taliban. I would say that is seeking them out, but that is JMO.

-I would say the one thing about him staying around for awhile in the past, as compared to now, is now there are charges being brought against him. Before it was all talk, and there was some talk he would just get a dishonorable discharge and be let go, maybe even get the POW benefit. Now he is possibly facing life in prison. Big difference.

-I had known guys in the past that were known as good soldiers. Then got in trouble for selling drugs to non-soldiers, one got multiple DUIs, and they were held in confinement. Maybe they got labeled that cancer definition you previously mentioned, I do not know. Just think that a desertion charge deserves a lockdown/confinement, at least to base, after work hours are over.

 

[qazplm]

the rules are pretty set in stone

odds are the misconduct was repeated, and they continued committing it after they were charged.
Or I suppose the commanders in that case simply didn't follow the rules, and the JAGs involved let it go. Unfortunately sometimes JAGs who advise commanders let them violate the rules/law because they want a good OER.

But selling drugs or getting a DUI especially is not remotely a basis by itself for PTC.

 

[Purdue85]

But that Obama dude is a great leader.

Originally posted by SDBoiler1:

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) - "The Army sergeant who abandoned his post in Afghanistan and was held captive by the Taliban could face up to life in prison if convicted of both the charges he's facing, military officials said Wednesday

Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was charged with misbehavior before the enemy, which carries a maximum sentence of up to life in prison. He was also charged with desertion, which carries a maximum of five years."

Paraded his parents in the Rose Garden and all.

Sent his foot soldiers out to tell the story of what a great guy he/she was.

Sold the rest of the lapdogs on why it was a great deal to trade terrorists for someone who might be a traitor.

yeah... great "leadership" from this clown.

This post was edited on 3/28 1:34 PM by Purdue85